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“But not Google.”

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That’s what I said. I said, “I’ll do Harbrace, Little-Brown, and Strunk & White, but not Google.”

Some background is in order. Mr. Big Food and I had a terrible row this morning. We are in full agreement on noun-pronoun agreement (e.g., “Every child has their his or her favorite toy”; alt. “All children have their…”). We are in general agreement on the Oxford comma (I allow for one common mistake, he does not). But on the matter of fewer and less, we part company. That’s it! We are on the outs. I’m not speaking to him! “Fewer” is subsumed under “less.” What sort of philosopher gibberish is that? No sir.

So I called Miss M.

As I explained to Miss M., the whole thing started when I commented that the cheery lady on the radio had informed my yesterday that it was National Grammar Day. I remarked that Every Day is National Grammar Day. To which Mr. Big Food replied, “Only you and Margaret think that!” He informed me that the first mistake the radio lady discussed– “accept” vs. “except”– was common among his students. I couldn’t believe it!

Miss M., naturally, agrees with me wholeheartedly, with the provisio that, e.g., “I had apples, pears and grapes for breakfast,” was in fact a mistake no matter what the AP Style Guide says.

One thing led to another and we got on the subject of “than I.” She asked for an example of when “than me” was appropriate. I could think of none. To which she challenged, “It’s a thing. Google it.”

So I eventually did. But first–

For the record:

Less refers to quantity, fewer to number.

Strunk & White, The Elements of Style

“His troubles are less than mine” means “His troubles are not so great as mine.” “His troubles are fewer than mine” means ” “His troubles are not so numerous as mine.”

Harbrace: “Fewer refers especially to number. … Less refers especially to value, degree, or amount.”

Little-Brown: Fewer refers to individual countable items (a plural noun), less to general amounts (a singular noun).

In general, avoid “understood” verbs by supplying them.

Strunk & White

I think Horace admires Jessica more than I. | I think Horace admires Jessica more than I do.

Polly loves cake more than me. | Polly loves cake more than she loves me.

Harbrace: “The case of a pronoun after than or as can determine the meaning of a sentence. … She likes Clarice more than I. [subjective, “more than I like Clarice] She likes Clarice more than me. [objective, “more than she likes me]

Little-Brown: Same

Top hit for a google search of “than I than me?”

I swear on a stack of grammar books a mile high it goes on like that for 1061 words. In the case of my three sources, what I’ve quoted is about it.

No wonder kids don’t know the difference between “accept” and “except.”

7 Responses

  1. One of my current pet peeves is “well paying”…
    It’s either “good paying” or “well paid”, but NOT “well paying”.

    “well” is an adverb. It modifies a verb – not a gerund. “Good” is an adjective. An adjective is used to modify a noun. A gerund is a form of noun.
    Now obviously, the word “pay” can be either a noun or a verb. Used as it is in these examples, if the word is “paying”, it’s a gerund…a form of the noun form. And should be modified by an adjective.

  3. You know…giving some thought to this…

    I didn’t have an understanding of grammar until I took Latin. When I was in high school, that was a pretty standard course. I was in a Catholic school, but I think it was usual in public schools as well – though I’m not certain about that. We took two years of Latin, then 2 years of some other language. In our school, it was usually French, and the “dummies” took Spanish. I – and one other girl – took German. That’s because I wanted to be a vet, and the local vet said it was “easy” to find someone to translate articles in French, but hard to find someone to translate from German, so take German if I could. Suited me fine – I started French 3 times and just didn’t catch on well. German seemed easy. Worked out well…my husband was military and we had 7 years (and three sons) in Germany. Lived mostly on the economy so ability to speak the language definitely came in handy. However…my point is that English doesn’t have the structure that the romance languages have, and it’s more difficult to understand and use the rules that make language more structured. Lack of structure make it easy to “lose” the rules which in turn may make the language even _more_ “loosey goosey”.
    My guess is that they don’t even teach grammar any more – but I can’t say I know.

    1. Given the number of crappy old first year Latin books, I think it was quite common. In 7th grade, those who wanted or were encouraged could test into 8th grade Latin and 8th grade algebra one (putting you one year ahead of your grade). I tested into both. On the math side, that (and taking trig in summer school) allowed me to finish high school in 3 years. On the Latin side– 4 years before I got out of HS. That combined with diagramming sentences really made English grammar make sense. I think I must have taken a year of some romance language first year in college. But you know, once you’ve done 4 of Latin, Spanish 1 is pretty darned easy.

      Re the teaching grammar. I’m glad the girls went to school when and where they did b/c I think you’re correct about these days. I mean think about it. A 30 year old school teacher finished college in 2011, high school in 2007. How many of them do you think took a year of Latin?

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